Agree that a covered east terrace would help acoustics and general feel of a more intimate proper ground
A redeveloped north terrace (and hats off to the young lads who sing there currently) with a steeper rake (like Halifax), eliminating the gap between stand and pitch if possible, would bring fans at that end even closer to the action and generate more engagement
I can’t help but feel that the freedom to move around the ground, which is enjoyed by many, results in a less cohesive fan body, which the North Terrace sparse then usually packed for 2nd half
Fans going to bar before half time is v common even in prem league, but made worse at Hayes Lane because queuing situation in Broomfields and outdoor bar is a joke. The club are missing out on a ton of revenue by not staffing properly. They should also employ a mobile beer guy outside
Agree recent performances have caused atmos to drop, and the team have a responsibility to get the crowd going. If the football is dire then the support will falter. Happens at most (not all) grounds
My biggest observation though is that £20 a ticket for that kind of game is a massive missed opportunity. They should be looking to pack the ground. See it as an investment at make it £10 max for adults, and give tickets away to local schools, the fans of the future.
Re the point about it being the same at Premier League where fans flock to the bar half-time. This was very unusual to me growing up in the nineties and noughties watching Raith Rovers as consumption of alcohol at professional football matches in Scotland was banned after crowd trouble between (you guessed it) Celtic and Rangers in the 1980 Scottish Cup Final. You can only have a drink if you are in hospitality such as the Exec Club. Places like Broomfields wouldn't be allowed in Scotland, at least not licensed under the club or as part of the stadium.
Scottish clubs have tried to overturn the ban for decades but the Scottish Police are dead against it so it'll unlikely happen any time soon. I believe Celtic have trialled it in some stands last season (family-orientated sections e.g. the Jock Stein stand) on agreement with the Council but I'm not sure how it went down. Personally I don't understand why people can't go for a few hours without having a drink, but that's just me. Perhaps I'm just a partial product of how Scotland has become a somewhat Nanny State on alcohol consumption. I completely understand the financial reasons for clubs and the occasional pint at HT to quench the thirst and wet the vocal chords
Wayne made a point about the GB stand being constantly filled with non-regulars and the continual movement of people in seats for various reasons. That would drive me absolutely nuts if I was constantly having to get up. This would not go down well at all in the Raith Rover's South Stand.
I agree and disagree about the team having a responsibility to get the crowd going. It should work both ways. Players are always going to have some off days so why not support them vocally and spur them on? Standing/sitting silent or chastising them, in what usually can be in earshot for the players, is never going to help matters. You're right though, it's a symptom at many football grounds but some are far better than others.
Pricing was definitely too high for this match, regardless of Bromley's recent pedigree in the competition it was still only the fifth round of the FA Trophy.
There are a few things to consider if you want to build a genuine atmosphere and some are more obvious then others.
1 ) - The north terrace doesn’t do justice to the amount of numbers Bromley sometimes have. Compare it to Maidstone terrace behind the goal. Bromley arguably would have more numbers in that terrace, definitely on a consistent basis. But in the NT we probably sound more then twice as quiet.
2 ) - Criticise them as much as you like but the youth bring a strong atmosphere. Compared to previous years there is a newer generation at Bromley who are starting to become more dedicated and are starting to travel further to games. Compare the atmosphere at Southend this year to previous years and date I say watch this space for Eastleigh.
3) - Bromley’s ground is very open which doesn’t help things echo. The more work Bromley do to the ground over the years will help it to improve but the bits and bobs development on the west side has left it being very open and the sound doesn’t echo as well.
4) - Bromley is very much a second choice for people. This is for people of all ages. Need I say no more about Bromley’s geographical location in football and its neighbours.
Until some of these change ( some of which can’t or not at least for a while ) Bromley will be facing the same problems. The easiest solution if a redeveloped North Terrace but we all know the cost of that. Some talk of fans moving to the East Terrace when it’s redeveloped but it won’t be the same
I posted a picture on Social Media of the Fiorini stand 15 mins into the second half v Aveley.
Despite hospitality being sold out the stand was 3/4 empty.Havnt noticed that before so need to look again this week and work that one out !
Without a doubt the best atmospheres come from grounds with roofs and an historic rivalry of fans !
Away fans do well to be heard on the open terrace.
The Glyn Beverley stand could build a decent atmosphere as I have heard when the kids or away fans start shouting at Cray games.The Bronley fans there havnt quite got it yet.
Play on the pitch generates atmosphere as does goading away fans.
As you say there is a ‘hard core’ but those numbers are currently being diluted.
Take us back 20 years to playing Dulwich H !
Ironically its the numbers now diluting the crowd.Look around at people chatting and checking their phones.
Its a shame that for most games those around you havnt really bought into it yet.
That should come in time but for now we should thank the kid with the drum behind the goal.
Hayes Lane for me doesn’t have the acoustic qualities of some grounds which certainly reduces the atmosphere, I used to be one of those behind the goal noisy lot but like my friends and we all still go and in to our 50’s now it’s a much quieter experience but does still have its moments.
As I watch with my 9 year old son now I am normally in the GB stand, right at the back great view, what sounds loud at the end behind the goal doesn’t really reach us,
The GB stand also seems to be full of lots od people who are not regular, some that seem to have the game as a day out rather than to watch football, you get the drill, arrive late, seat 8 kids then go off and get food, add to that the 10 toilet breaks you find yourself constantly standing up to let people in and out.
Another example of atmosphere is the Wembley game(s) large numbers of day trippers they don’t add to the atmosphere much as they don’t have the connection that stalwart supporters have, don’t know the songs that everyone from our era know so well,
Saturday is a big game and one we will hear chesterfield singing and not so much from us I fear
Good article Martin. I share your incredulity at people heading to the bar before half-time, it's not unique to Hayes Lane and Broomfields though. I'm a West Ham season ticket holder and it's a widespread practice at the London Stadium. Like you, I was brought up to watch every minute of the game (it must be a Fife thing, I'm from Glenrothes).
I think your point about Bromley being a second team for a lot of fans is more relevant than you cover in the article. The second team thing is very evident from listening to the crowd at any game at Hayes Lane, where you always hear people checking out the latest scores from their first team.
In my opinion, there's an element of the Bromley crowd, who are genuine football fans, support other clubs but for one reason or another (e.g. their team is away, they can't get tickets etc.) and are simply going along to watch Bromley for an afternoon out with their mates, watching the game and having a few beers. It's very unlikely that this element will be singing
It's good to know I'm not the only one what still gapes in awe at this phenomenon! I had never experienced an English game until attending my first Crystal Palace game in 2022 and I didn't really notice it much then. It was a fantastic atmosphere that day and it was very much a mid-table end of season clash.
I didn't want to focus too much on the fact that, for a lot of the supporters that turn up, Bromley are second fiddle. I have covered that in previous articles before and wanted to explore some potential deeper root causes which I believe have a play in atmospheres at grounds. It's been great to hear from such a wide range of Bromley fans so far on this, both young and of old!
I still remember that feeling of being utterly scunnered when missing a goal on occasion at Stark's Park where I'd thought it was safe to go to the loo! The only way you'd get to see it back again was if you were watching Sportscene that night, my dad used to tape all of the games and I'd watch them back, rewinding over and over again. There was no YouTube or club highlights back then although Raith were very quick in becoming one of the first clubs to do so in Scotland.
Success creates atmosphere and Hayes Lane (don’t mention the R word) has suffered of late primarily because the team have come off the boil and are in the doldrums . Although unbelievably still in 2nd place in the league, we are struggling and that makes the crowd nervous, and a nervous crowd is not a noisy crowd.
As for chanting and singing, the crowd demographic, although changing slowly, has a high percentage of the ‘grey brigade’ of old age perishers ( me included) who aren’t inclined to sing but will cheer and shout when we are on our game.
Broomfields is an oddity, in exaggeration there were more in there during the game than there were on the terrace's, but it is giving the club what it wants, money over the bar.
Without doubt the attendance for a Aveley Trophy game was diehard Bromley fans, I know that because of the snaking queue for the tea huts, not the bar, were ridiculously long. It’s fair enough marketing yourself to league clubs and floating supporters, but the price point was all wrong, I know there are league restrictions etc but it was just too expensive.
And now the corporate entertainment, the second half corporate seats were empty, similar to a night at Wembley with England hosting the Faroe Isles, a fact pointed out by @lionofGlencoe with his action photo of the stands.
Unfortunately the club miss the point of marketing to new audiences. Their marketing is directed through their own website and TwitterX etc. preaching to the already converted, potential new customers aren’t looking at these social media outlets it needs to be done as if the circus is coming to town by getting out there and letting the masses know.
Anyway enough rambling on, I’m looking forward to Chesterfield, I think we can give them a good game. Come on Bromley!!
Great article
A few observations of my own -
Agree that a covered east terrace would help acoustics and general feel of a more intimate proper ground
A redeveloped north terrace (and hats off to the young lads who sing there currently) with a steeper rake (like Halifax), eliminating the gap between stand and pitch if possible, would bring fans at that end even closer to the action and generate more engagement
I can’t help but feel that the freedom to move around the ground, which is enjoyed by many, results in a less cohesive fan body, which the North Terrace sparse then usually packed for 2nd half
Fans going to bar before half time is v common even in prem league, but made worse at Hayes Lane because queuing situation in Broomfields and outdoor bar is a joke. The club are missing out on a ton of revenue by not staffing properly. They should also employ a mobile beer guy outside
Agree recent performances have caused atmos to drop, and the team have a responsibility to get the crowd going. If the football is dire then the support will falter. Happens at most (not all) grounds
My biggest observation though is that £20 a ticket for that kind of game is a massive missed opportunity. They should be looking to pack the ground. See it as an investment at make it £10 max for adults, and give tickets away to local schools, the fans of the future.
Thanks Paul.
Re the point about it being the same at Premier League where fans flock to the bar half-time. This was very unusual to me growing up in the nineties and noughties watching Raith Rovers as consumption of alcohol at professional football matches in Scotland was banned after crowd trouble between (you guessed it) Celtic and Rangers in the 1980 Scottish Cup Final. You can only have a drink if you are in hospitality such as the Exec Club. Places like Broomfields wouldn't be allowed in Scotland, at least not licensed under the club or as part of the stadium.
Scottish clubs have tried to overturn the ban for decades but the Scottish Police are dead against it so it'll unlikely happen any time soon. I believe Celtic have trialled it in some stands last season (family-orientated sections e.g. the Jock Stein stand) on agreement with the Council but I'm not sure how it went down. Personally I don't understand why people can't go for a few hours without having a drink, but that's just me. Perhaps I'm just a partial product of how Scotland has become a somewhat Nanny State on alcohol consumption. I completely understand the financial reasons for clubs and the occasional pint at HT to quench the thirst and wet the vocal chords
Wayne made a point about the GB stand being constantly filled with non-regulars and the continual movement of people in seats for various reasons. That would drive me absolutely nuts if I was constantly having to get up. This would not go down well at all in the Raith Rover's South Stand.
I agree and disagree about the team having a responsibility to get the crowd going. It should work both ways. Players are always going to have some off days so why not support them vocally and spur them on? Standing/sitting silent or chastising them, in what usually can be in earshot for the players, is never going to help matters. You're right though, it's a symptom at many football grounds but some are far better than others.
Pricing was definitely too high for this match, regardless of Bromley's recent pedigree in the competition it was still only the fifth round of the FA Trophy.
There are a few things to consider if you want to build a genuine atmosphere and some are more obvious then others.
1 ) - The north terrace doesn’t do justice to the amount of numbers Bromley sometimes have. Compare it to Maidstone terrace behind the goal. Bromley arguably would have more numbers in that terrace, definitely on a consistent basis. But in the NT we probably sound more then twice as quiet.
2 ) - Criticise them as much as you like but the youth bring a strong atmosphere. Compared to previous years there is a newer generation at Bromley who are starting to become more dedicated and are starting to travel further to games. Compare the atmosphere at Southend this year to previous years and date I say watch this space for Eastleigh.
3) - Bromley’s ground is very open which doesn’t help things echo. The more work Bromley do to the ground over the years will help it to improve but the bits and bobs development on the west side has left it being very open and the sound doesn’t echo as well.
4) - Bromley is very much a second choice for people. This is for people of all ages. Need I say no more about Bromley’s geographical location in football and its neighbours.
Until some of these change ( some of which can’t or not at least for a while ) Bromley will be facing the same problems. The easiest solution if a redeveloped North Terrace but we all know the cost of that. Some talk of fans moving to the East Terrace when it’s redeveloped but it won’t be the same
I posted a picture on Social Media of the Fiorini stand 15 mins into the second half v Aveley.
Despite hospitality being sold out the stand was 3/4 empty.Havnt noticed that before so need to look again this week and work that one out !
Without a doubt the best atmospheres come from grounds with roofs and an historic rivalry of fans !
Away fans do well to be heard on the open terrace.
The Glyn Beverley stand could build a decent atmosphere as I have heard when the kids or away fans start shouting at Cray games.The Bronley fans there havnt quite got it yet.
Play on the pitch generates atmosphere as does goading away fans.
As you say there is a ‘hard core’ but those numbers are currently being diluted.
Take us back 20 years to playing Dulwich H !
Ironically its the numbers now diluting the crowd.Look around at people chatting and checking their phones.
Its a shame that for most games those around you havnt really bought into it yet.
That should come in time but for now we should thank the kid with the drum behind the goal.
The drummer very much appreciates it 🤣🤣
So your the drummer boy!!!!
Kind of. Few people play it tbf between me and my mates. Me and my mate Louie are the ones that look after it tho
You’re ✔️
Becoming a costly expense 😅🤣
They were probably still inside eating their cheese and biscuits, laughing at us stood in the rain :)
Hayes Lane for me doesn’t have the acoustic qualities of some grounds which certainly reduces the atmosphere, I used to be one of those behind the goal noisy lot but like my friends and we all still go and in to our 50’s now it’s a much quieter experience but does still have its moments.
As I watch with my 9 year old son now I am normally in the GB stand, right at the back great view, what sounds loud at the end behind the goal doesn’t really reach us,
The GB stand also seems to be full of lots od people who are not regular, some that seem to have the game as a day out rather than to watch football, you get the drill, arrive late, seat 8 kids then go off and get food, add to that the 10 toilet breaks you find yourself constantly standing up to let people in and out.
Another example of atmosphere is the Wembley game(s) large numbers of day trippers they don’t add to the atmosphere much as they don’t have the connection that stalwart supporters have, don’t know the songs that everyone from our era know so well,
Saturday is a big game and one we will hear chesterfield singing and not so much from us I fear
Good article Martin. I share your incredulity at people heading to the bar before half-time, it's not unique to Hayes Lane and Broomfields though. I'm a West Ham season ticket holder and it's a widespread practice at the London Stadium. Like you, I was brought up to watch every minute of the game (it must be a Fife thing, I'm from Glenrothes).
I think your point about Bromley being a second team for a lot of fans is more relevant than you cover in the article. The second team thing is very evident from listening to the crowd at any game at Hayes Lane, where you always hear people checking out the latest scores from their first team.
In my opinion, there's an element of the Bromley crowd, who are genuine football fans, support other clubs but for one reason or another (e.g. their team is away, they can't get tickets etc.) and are simply going along to watch Bromley for an afternoon out with their mates, watching the game and having a few beers. It's very unlikely that this element will be singing
Thanks John.
It's good to know I'm not the only one what still gapes in awe at this phenomenon! I had never experienced an English game until attending my first Crystal Palace game in 2022 and I didn't really notice it much then. It was a fantastic atmosphere that day and it was very much a mid-table end of season clash.
I didn't want to focus too much on the fact that, for a lot of the supporters that turn up, Bromley are second fiddle. I have covered that in previous articles before and wanted to explore some potential deeper root causes which I believe have a play in atmospheres at grounds. It's been great to hear from such a wide range of Bromley fans so far on this, both young and of old!
I still remember that feeling of being utterly scunnered when missing a goal on occasion at Stark's Park where I'd thought it was safe to go to the loo! The only way you'd get to see it back again was if you were watching Sportscene that night, my dad used to tape all of the games and I'd watch them back, rewinding over and over again. There was no YouTube or club highlights back then although Raith were very quick in becoming one of the first clubs to do so in Scotland.
You have clearly not heard my amazing singing voice behind the dugout! ;)
Success creates atmosphere and Hayes Lane (don’t mention the R word) has suffered of late primarily because the team have come off the boil and are in the doldrums . Although unbelievably still in 2nd place in the league, we are struggling and that makes the crowd nervous, and a nervous crowd is not a noisy crowd.
As for chanting and singing, the crowd demographic, although changing slowly, has a high percentage of the ‘grey brigade’ of old age perishers ( me included) who aren’t inclined to sing but will cheer and shout when we are on our game.
Broomfields is an oddity, in exaggeration there were more in there during the game than there were on the terrace's, but it is giving the club what it wants, money over the bar.
Without doubt the attendance for a Aveley Trophy game was diehard Bromley fans, I know that because of the snaking queue for the tea huts, not the bar, were ridiculously long. It’s fair enough marketing yourself to league clubs and floating supporters, but the price point was all wrong, I know there are league restrictions etc but it was just too expensive.
And now the corporate entertainment, the second half corporate seats were empty, similar to a night at Wembley with England hosting the Faroe Isles, a fact pointed out by @lionofGlencoe with his action photo of the stands.
Unfortunately the club miss the point of marketing to new audiences. Their marketing is directed through their own website and TwitterX etc. preaching to the already converted, potential new customers aren’t looking at these social media outlets it needs to be done as if the circus is coming to town by getting out there and letting the masses know.
Anyway enough rambling on, I’m looking forward to Chesterfield, I think we can give them a good game. Come on Bromley!!