THANKS yet again for your report and comments. I felt Cheek replacing Marriot had a positive effect as he won headers against defenders that Marriot had failed to do. Other comment was Louie was far too deep to be an attacking menace. Happy New Year to you
I agree with this. Marriot was getting bullied up top on his own. Cheek came on and won everything in the air and held the ball up, the only issue though was their was no creativity or final pass to put him through. I also thought Dennis and Whitely were far too close to eachother as Dennis kept drifting out left
agree with both of that, I do though think Cheek plays better when he is partnered with a target man. Cheek may not be as quick as say Alexander but his anticipation and movement are spot on and his finishing is 1 of the best in the league so if he's not having to hold the ball up and win the headers he can make those runs he scored all those goals from. Cheek/Alabi partnership in the FA Trophy semi finals comes to my mind.
Agree with Louis dropping deeper but I just think him a Whitely are possibly too similar to be positioned so close together.
Yes I don't think this was a bad result. Southend are a good side and their Defence is up there with the best. 2nd Half was much better. TBH I am amazed that a Bromley team without Bingham Sowunmi and Vennings is achieving so much. 7 games coming up in 21 days so Woodman will have to utilise his squad. ! A couple of new faces wouldn't go amiss but they have to be the right players. From January to April last season we struggled with too many players coming in. It generally takes too long for new players to gel and I would look at new signings for the long-term rather than short-term.
The present team has more pace and 4 at the back helps stem the flow of goals. Onward to Altrincham a tricky test. Saw a bit of the game against Halifax Conn-Clarke outstanding Altrincham should have won.
I say it's a false position because 1 or 2 bad results and we're back down the league. We're as close to 5th as we are to 15th.
I don't think you can pinpoint who the Cowleys right now in 2023 are for Bromley to appoint as they really came to fruition once given the chance in the national league. But like I said with that budget and the squad they inherited they did an extraordinary job.
My personal opinion is that a club such as Bromley who do not have the budgets of the top 3 teams in the league need to look at a manager who knows this league and the leagues below inside out, meaning they can recruit smartly and not rely on teenager loanees that may or may not work, also someone that has managerial experience not just coaching even if it is at a high level.
Some names I could mention are: Alan Dowson, Jay Saunders, Ross Jenkins, Gavin Rose, Darren Currie
I'm not saying any of these are as good as the Cowley's (TBH i'd ask Nicky Cowley to become manager in his own right at Bromley) but these are just some names to consider.
I think there's lots of factors but ultimately you need to see progression from previous years, that's not just league position as you don't want to be 7th and then lose all your players in the summer, that's not a success.
So in no order:
- An identity I.e. a style of play, preferably an attractive one.
- personnel - a squad to take forward into the next season, currently only 3 or 4 players are signed on
- Happy fans
- Happy players (I understand your stance on this but I know the manager has lost the dressing room)
- league position
- Good cup run (not possible now)
Like I said ultimately you just want to see the club moving forward and that would be a successful season
How long have you been watching Bromley by the way? I only ask because none of what you you're asking for has all happened at once in a National League season....
I understand that but I'm just pinpointing what would be classed as successful. Ultimately an improvement previous years would be classed as a success as you see progression
I personally believe with this manager we are on a downward slope. Of course only my opinion though and I respect anyone with differing views, it's always good to see your take on things
In regards to this I really believe the 8th position is a seriously false position that makes everyone overlook certain things. For example:
1. points per season
We are currently 24pts behind the league leaders, and only halfway through the season. I understand the finances these teams at the top have and the quality but if you then compare us to say Woking who are similar in budget we're already 12 pts behind them.
In 19/20 we finished 18pts behind the leaders. 20/21 = 15pts. 21/22 = 27pts.... it would appear we are going backwards.
2. Goal Difference
The pas 4 seasons our goal difference has been 10 or less. The majority of the clubs around us that have had good seasons in and around the play off positions have had a considerably better goal difference. With the top top teams in the 30s/40s. Michael Cheek finished the top goal scorer in the whole league in 20/21 with 23 league goals but we still only finished with a goal difference of 10. Last season he finished on 17 goals but the teams goal difference was only 8. We have consistently one of the best out and out strikers in the league but can't seem to get goals from other areas and we're conceding too much.
3 Dressing Room
There has seemed to be public fallouts with players, from Cousins being dropped after doing nothing wrong which then meant he didn't sign a new contract and left us without a keeper throughout pre-season this year. To Alabi publicly stating how he wanted to sign again but the club ghosted him and now the Chris Bush debacle who was on gardening leave for months when we was crying out for his quality. The players don't seem happy, you have a striker who has over 300 national league goals to his name which is statistically one of the best in the leagues history and yet he has been resigned to the bench for the past 2 games, then comes on a feeds of scraps.
4. Players Lost
From Last Season = Cousins, Coulson, Alabi, Partington, Kory Roberts, Jack Cawley, Ben Margetson, Toby Stevenson, Liam Trotter
From Season Before = Kizzi, Liam Vincent, Jack Bridge, Frankie Raymond, Taylor Maloney, Charlie Wakefield, Tom Purrington, Ben Williamson, Korrey Henry
There's a few there such as Kizzi, Vincent and Bridge who went on to either a higher up club or a more local/favoured club but with the others a lot of them would walk into our current side and the rest would be very very good backups to have. For example if we still had last years players (not including loans) then my team from yesterday would have been:
Cousins
Partington
Webster
Sowunmi
Bush
Bingham
Vennings
Forster
Whitely
Coulson
Cheek
Then have on the bench = Reynolds, Trotter, Dennis, Alabi, Marriot/Alexander
I go back to the mismanagement of players, Cheek on the bench. Bloomfield being bought for money and now gone. The player fall outs. Alexander scoring an overhead kick and then couldn't get back in the squad let alone the XI. Sablier barely appearing and others from the youth teams playing ahead of him even though last season he was supposedly head and shoulders above the rest of the youth.
5. Post Match Interviews
They seem to be extremely erratic, 1 minute praising the teams never say die attitude to the next minute stating the tactics aren't what they practised and people shouldn't miss the target on a penalty (considering it's a very pressured situation, Forster is still young and our England captain did the exact same thing the week before). Also seems to make sly digs at the fans and some of the comments that have been made on social media regarding the management of the team.
I personally believe as much as the club strive forward off the pitch with the hospitality it has gone backwards on the pitch and I believe that is down to the management team of AD and AW. With new management we will see a positive boost to the team and may actually see the team make some progress, every week I feel like they could be sacked.
1. No such thing as a 'false' position imho. You are where you are and that's that really. You compare Bromley to Woking - but Woking were bought out last season with brand new owners with serious capital. We are not the same with them. There is a reason Darren Sarll left Yeovil to go to Woking and manage them
2. I agree we need goals from others but that also includes Cheek. He hasnt produced this season
3. I cant speak to a dressing room as Im not in and I dont really buy into rumours tbh. Bush was deemed unprofessional so he was told to go (thats fine in my book). Thats how it works in other jobs. I have a piece coming out later in the week looking at Cheek I agree with some issues there but for other reasons
4. I cant comment on all of those players but who has gone on to better things really apart from Kizzi? Coulson was one of our top top earners and we cut the cloth accoridngly. He is now in the NLS. As for Alabi I would have kept him but was he scoring enough for you? Marriott was his replacement (Marriott already has more goals than him).
5. I mean, ultimately my take is some people just dont like AW and every game we dont win, some even when we win will be analysed to fit that narrative that he's shit. I always warn people be careful what you wish for. We are one bad managerial appointment away from an actual season of struggle - being 8th (on our budget) is not it.
Appreciate your reply but if you also look at Braintree as an example from 2015/2016, they was on a shoesting budget and managed to finish 3rd in the league. They brought in the Cowleys from Concord who was relatively unknown at the time but up and coming local managers. The Cowley's recruited fantastically bringing in Cheek from Chelmsford. They brought in Sam Habergham, Alex Woodyard, Tom King, Sean Long, Will Norris, Sam Smzodziks, Harry Anderson.... These are all known to have gone on and do fantastic things in league football, but were mostly unknown at the time.
They also had players such as Remy Clerima, Chez Isaac, Matt Paine, Sean Marks, Dan Sparkes, Simeon Akinola, Joe Maybanks, Joe Gardner, Anthony Edgar - all of these I don't believe you would class as Top 3 in the national league type players
The point i'm making is that when you get a good manager who can recruit well and set the team up well tactically you see the results they can have with a next to nothing budget. 3rd in the national league was a massive overachievement for the club and that was mostly down to the Cowley's (who again at the time was in their first season in the league having come from the conference south), I don't like it when people use budgets as an excuse as i've seen first hand what a team with a tiny budget (much less than Bromley) can do.
It's only my personal opinion but I firmly believe the club is going backwards and that has a lot to do with the management i.e. not recruiting well enough, losing players that would improve the current team, not bringing the best out of the players they have, not knowing their best team or formation.
The Braintree example is an excellent one but heres the chaser. How many Braintree seasons have there been in the history of the National League? Dover when they came 6th in 2016-17?
Most acknowledge that and Braintree as an anomaly. More importantly than that though is the National League in 2022/23 is a different beast to then. There are only two proper part-time clubs in the league.
The key with using the Cowleys as an example is you need to then give an example of who are the Cowleys right now in 2023 for Bromley to appoint?
Also what are your realistic expectations for Bromley - it surely cant be top 3 because we all know Wrexham, Notts and Chesterfield have those positions locked in?
If it's playoffs then why would 8th be a disaster right now? I know you'll say it's a false position but when I look at the table it still says 8th.
THANKS yet again for your report and comments. I felt Cheek replacing Marriot had a positive effect as he won headers against defenders that Marriot had failed to do. Other comment was Louie was far too deep to be an attacking menace. Happy New Year to you
I agree with this. Marriot was getting bullied up top on his own. Cheek came on and won everything in the air and held the ball up, the only issue though was their was no creativity or final pass to put him through. I also thought Dennis and Whitely were far too close to eachother as Dennis kept drifting out left
From my vantage point you're right re: Cheek - but more often than not he was heading on to no one (as ppl werent running beyond him).
As for Louis I think he dropped deep to go get the ball particularly when we were penned in so much in the first half.
agree with both of that, I do though think Cheek plays better when he is partnered with a target man. Cheek may not be as quick as say Alexander but his anticipation and movement are spot on and his finishing is 1 of the best in the league so if he's not having to hold the ball up and win the headers he can make those runs he scored all those goals from. Cheek/Alabi partnership in the FA Trophy semi finals comes to my mind.
Agree with Louis dropping deeper but I just think him a Whitely are possibly too similar to be positioned so close together.
Yes I don't think this was a bad result. Southend are a good side and their Defence is up there with the best. 2nd Half was much better. TBH I am amazed that a Bromley team without Bingham Sowunmi and Vennings is achieving so much. 7 games coming up in 21 days so Woodman will have to utilise his squad. ! A couple of new faces wouldn't go amiss but they have to be the right players. From January to April last season we struggled with too many players coming in. It generally takes too long for new players to gel and I would look at new signings for the long-term rather than short-term.
The present team has more pace and 4 at the back helps stem the flow of goals. Onward to Altrincham a tricky test. Saw a bit of the game against Halifax Conn-Clarke outstanding Altrincham should have won.
Yep I believe Altrinchamam are now 8 unbeaten and one of the chasing pack below us.
Conn-Clarke and Colclough are a big problem.
Completely agree re: signings. One or two would do with a view that they are also wanted for next season.
However it may be that loans or free transfers end up as our only option
I say it's a false position because 1 or 2 bad results and we're back down the league. We're as close to 5th as we are to 15th.
I don't think you can pinpoint who the Cowleys right now in 2023 are for Bromley to appoint as they really came to fruition once given the chance in the national league. But like I said with that budget and the squad they inherited they did an extraordinary job.
My personal opinion is that a club such as Bromley who do not have the budgets of the top 3 teams in the league need to look at a manager who knows this league and the leagues below inside out, meaning they can recruit smartly and not rely on teenager loanees that may or may not work, also someone that has managerial experience not just coaching even if it is at a high level.
Some names I could mention are: Alan Dowson, Jay Saunders, Ross Jenkins, Gavin Rose, Darren Currie
I'm not saying any of these are as good as the Cowley's (TBH i'd ask Nicky Cowley to become manager in his own right at Bromley) but these are just some names to consider.
Out of interest - what is success/failure for you this season?
I think there's lots of factors but ultimately you need to see progression from previous years, that's not just league position as you don't want to be 7th and then lose all your players in the summer, that's not a success.
So in no order:
- An identity I.e. a style of play, preferably an attractive one.
- personnel - a squad to take forward into the next season, currently only 3 or 4 players are signed on
- Happy fans
- Happy players (I understand your stance on this but I know the manager has lost the dressing room)
- league position
- Good cup run (not possible now)
Like I said ultimately you just want to see the club moving forward and that would be a successful season
How long have you been watching Bromley by the way? I only ask because none of what you you're asking for has all happened at once in a National League season....
I understand that but I'm just pinpointing what would be classed as successful. Ultimately an improvement previous years would be classed as a success as you see progression
I personally believe with this manager we are on a downward slope. Of course only my opinion though and I respect anyone with differing views, it's always good to see your take on things
Hello,
In regards to this I really believe the 8th position is a seriously false position that makes everyone overlook certain things. For example:
1. points per season
We are currently 24pts behind the league leaders, and only halfway through the season. I understand the finances these teams at the top have and the quality but if you then compare us to say Woking who are similar in budget we're already 12 pts behind them.
In 19/20 we finished 18pts behind the leaders. 20/21 = 15pts. 21/22 = 27pts.... it would appear we are going backwards.
2. Goal Difference
The pas 4 seasons our goal difference has been 10 or less. The majority of the clubs around us that have had good seasons in and around the play off positions have had a considerably better goal difference. With the top top teams in the 30s/40s. Michael Cheek finished the top goal scorer in the whole league in 20/21 with 23 league goals but we still only finished with a goal difference of 10. Last season he finished on 17 goals but the teams goal difference was only 8. We have consistently one of the best out and out strikers in the league but can't seem to get goals from other areas and we're conceding too much.
3 Dressing Room
There has seemed to be public fallouts with players, from Cousins being dropped after doing nothing wrong which then meant he didn't sign a new contract and left us without a keeper throughout pre-season this year. To Alabi publicly stating how he wanted to sign again but the club ghosted him and now the Chris Bush debacle who was on gardening leave for months when we was crying out for his quality. The players don't seem happy, you have a striker who has over 300 national league goals to his name which is statistically one of the best in the leagues history and yet he has been resigned to the bench for the past 2 games, then comes on a feeds of scraps.
4. Players Lost
From Last Season = Cousins, Coulson, Alabi, Partington, Kory Roberts, Jack Cawley, Ben Margetson, Toby Stevenson, Liam Trotter
From Season Before = Kizzi, Liam Vincent, Jack Bridge, Frankie Raymond, Taylor Maloney, Charlie Wakefield, Tom Purrington, Ben Williamson, Korrey Henry
There's a few there such as Kizzi, Vincent and Bridge who went on to either a higher up club or a more local/favoured club but with the others a lot of them would walk into our current side and the rest would be very very good backups to have. For example if we still had last years players (not including loans) then my team from yesterday would have been:
Cousins
Partington
Webster
Sowunmi
Bush
Bingham
Vennings
Forster
Whitely
Coulson
Cheek
Then have on the bench = Reynolds, Trotter, Dennis, Alabi, Marriot/Alexander
I go back to the mismanagement of players, Cheek on the bench. Bloomfield being bought for money and now gone. The player fall outs. Alexander scoring an overhead kick and then couldn't get back in the squad let alone the XI. Sablier barely appearing and others from the youth teams playing ahead of him even though last season he was supposedly head and shoulders above the rest of the youth.
5. Post Match Interviews
They seem to be extremely erratic, 1 minute praising the teams never say die attitude to the next minute stating the tactics aren't what they practised and people shouldn't miss the target on a penalty (considering it's a very pressured situation, Forster is still young and our England captain did the exact same thing the week before). Also seems to make sly digs at the fans and some of the comments that have been made on social media regarding the management of the team.
I personally believe as much as the club strive forward off the pitch with the hospitality it has gone backwards on the pitch and I believe that is down to the management team of AD and AW. With new management we will see a positive boost to the team and may actually see the team make some progress, every week I feel like they could be sacked.
It's a long reply but here goes
1. No such thing as a 'false' position imho. You are where you are and that's that really. You compare Bromley to Woking - but Woking were bought out last season with brand new owners with serious capital. We are not the same with them. There is a reason Darren Sarll left Yeovil to go to Woking and manage them
2. I agree we need goals from others but that also includes Cheek. He hasnt produced this season
3. I cant speak to a dressing room as Im not in and I dont really buy into rumours tbh. Bush was deemed unprofessional so he was told to go (thats fine in my book). Thats how it works in other jobs. I have a piece coming out later in the week looking at Cheek I agree with some issues there but for other reasons
4. I cant comment on all of those players but who has gone on to better things really apart from Kizzi? Coulson was one of our top top earners and we cut the cloth accoridngly. He is now in the NLS. As for Alabi I would have kept him but was he scoring enough for you? Marriott was his replacement (Marriott already has more goals than him).
5. I mean, ultimately my take is some people just dont like AW and every game we dont win, some even when we win will be analysed to fit that narrative that he's shit. I always warn people be careful what you wish for. We are one bad managerial appointment away from an actual season of struggle - being 8th (on our budget) is not it.
Appreciate your reply but if you also look at Braintree as an example from 2015/2016, they was on a shoesting budget and managed to finish 3rd in the league. They brought in the Cowleys from Concord who was relatively unknown at the time but up and coming local managers. The Cowley's recruited fantastically bringing in Cheek from Chelmsford. They brought in Sam Habergham, Alex Woodyard, Tom King, Sean Long, Will Norris, Sam Smzodziks, Harry Anderson.... These are all known to have gone on and do fantastic things in league football, but were mostly unknown at the time.
They also had players such as Remy Clerima, Chez Isaac, Matt Paine, Sean Marks, Dan Sparkes, Simeon Akinola, Joe Maybanks, Joe Gardner, Anthony Edgar - all of these I don't believe you would class as Top 3 in the national league type players
The point i'm making is that when you get a good manager who can recruit well and set the team up well tactically you see the results they can have with a next to nothing budget. 3rd in the national league was a massive overachievement for the club and that was mostly down to the Cowley's (who again at the time was in their first season in the league having come from the conference south), I don't like it when people use budgets as an excuse as i've seen first hand what a team with a tiny budget (much less than Bromley) can do.
It's only my personal opinion but I firmly believe the club is going backwards and that has a lot to do with the management i.e. not recruiting well enough, losing players that would improve the current team, not bringing the best out of the players they have, not knowing their best team or formation.
The Braintree example is an excellent one but heres the chaser. How many Braintree seasons have there been in the history of the National League? Dover when they came 6th in 2016-17?
Most acknowledge that and Braintree as an anomaly. More importantly than that though is the National League in 2022/23 is a different beast to then. There are only two proper part-time clubs in the league.
The key with using the Cowleys as an example is you need to then give an example of who are the Cowleys right now in 2023 for Bromley to appoint?
Also what are your realistic expectations for Bromley - it surely cant be top 3 because we all know Wrexham, Notts and Chesterfield have those positions locked in?
If it's playoffs then why would 8th be a disaster right now? I know you'll say it's a false position but when I look at the table it still says 8th.